Seminar (Part 2): Reflection on Pastoral Excellence

A Reflection on: What Is an Excellent Ministry, What Is an Excellent Minister, What Criteria or Characteristics Define Excellence?

TRANSCRIPT—PART 2 (read PART 1)

But as I listened to my brothers, a first tentative, general definition occurred to me, because I believe that excellent ministry, rather than being defined, should be described in terms of its characteristics, and in this I subscribe to the methodology of the Apostle Paul as he tries to define what love is. Instead, he ends up describing it: love is kind, it is patient, it does not boast, it is not puffed up, etc., etc. I believe ministry is better described than defined.

But I thought about our church’s vision, which we have posted at the entrance to the congregation, and I believe that, in a sense, what we did there was put into words our understanding of excellence in ministry—what we pursue as a church—and it could be a first effort in that direction. I am going to read it. Our vision as Lion of Judah says: “To be an exemplary church that models the finest values of the Word of God, grounded in the gifts and fruit of the Holy Spirit, demonstrating excellence in evangelism, community involvement, administration, and the training of its members to be effective servants of Jesus Christ.”

We could unpack many of the key terms in that definition, and I believe we would have a good attempt at defining what ministry is. But I will simply leave it there as a broader definition, and I will now address some specific points concerning what defines, for example, an excellent minister.

I believe that Brother Alvin Padilla—and really everyone—has already touched on all these things. What I will do instead is qualify them and add my own perspective. But one thing I would say about an excellent minister is that such a person is in a perpetual state of growth—perpetual growth.

Alvin focused mainly on the academic aspect, on study, but I know he meant much more than that, and perhaps he even touched on it. I see an excellent minister as a person who is in a continual state of development. When I say that, I see an arrow traveling perpetually across the heavens toward a target so far away that it cannot even be seen, and the arrow will never reach its target. That is how the servant of God, whether man or woman, should be: always growing, always developing, always seeking a higher level of development, whether in personal self-mastery and the development of one’s character, overcoming shortcomings, growing in ministerial knowledge, or in relationships with parishioners, colleagues, children, family, etc.

That is, it is a continual pursuit of improvement, of personal growth, of becoming more and more like Jesus Christ, and of never thinking, “I have arrived.” In everything that defines excellence, the servant of God, whether woman or man, is always asking: How can I improve? How can I chip away one more little piece from that marble statue being sculpted, and how can I bring it to reflect more and more precisely the form of Jesus Christ, who is the supreme model? So: perpetual growth.

Number two: I believe an excellent minister is a person who possesses a vital spirituality—a vital spirituality. The minister, the servant of God, ministers out of an abundance of spiritual energy and of the presence of the Holy Spirit within him or her. Indeed, I believe we minister out of the overflow of spiritual energy within us.

There is an energy we need for our own consumption, simply to process the events and needs of life. And from that overflow God gives us through intimacy—from that “abide in me, and I in you” of Jesus Christ—there then arises an overflow that we share with others and that spreads to them.

I strongly believe that ministry takes place more through contagion and the impartation of life than through intellectual or academic explanation or teaching. Therefore, a vital spirituality is required: being anchored in Jesus, connected to Christ, connected to the Word; a continual, disciplined devotional life that then results in an effervescence, a vitality of spirit that enables us to touch others, impact others, inspire others, spread that vitality to others, and bless others. That vital spirituality is necessary.

A person can minister for a long time on the basis of human knowledge or skills, but sooner or later, because it is not the life of Jesus, drought and barrenness set in, and generally destruction as well. Only spiritual vitality anchored in Jesus Christ can result in an effective ministry. It is therefore very important for the servant of God, whether man or woman, always to seek a very high level of spiritual vitality. And when we feel dry, tired, or burned out, it is time to return once again to drink from the waters. Vital spirituality.

Number three: competent within the measure of one’s endowment. I say this because the Apostle Paul says, “according to the measure of faith received.” Competent within the measure of one’s endowment in the basic areas of ministry.

Each person has a different level of attainment—or rather, of spiritual endowment. The Lord gives thirtyfold, sixtyfold, and a hundredfold; each person receives a gift, receives a level of endowment according to God’s calling. Now, within that endowment and within his or her area of ministry, the servant of God must make a great effort to acquire competence—a basic level of ability and performance in the areas that characterize his or her service.

In the case of the minister, for example, these include preaching, administration—which we have already mentioned—evangelism, the care of souls, and other things we could name. Those are basic things; they are the tools of the minister or servant of God. If, for example, you lead worship, you should have mastery of your voice, your physical appearance, your knowledge of choruses and hymns that can bless the church, and your knowledge of music—even if it is only basic theory or an instrument—things like that, right?

Each person has his or her own area of basic, practical competence. But we must make sure that we can skillfully use the tools of our ministry and that we devote time to studying how to be a good preacher, for example; what the rules of hermeneutics or biblical exposition are; or church history—things that will inform our preaching.

So we must devote time to those practical aspects of our ministries and not live, as Sergio said, in some ethereal, abstract spirituality, simply up in the clouds. No, there is a very basic, very practical aspect of ministry that is not very romantic, but that we must force ourselves to master. And I believe that this is where many of us ministers, many servants of the Lord, fail: we subscribe only to a vain and escapist spirituality that does not drive us to pursue mastery of the basic things.

The runner runs mile after mile after mile, monotonously, yet perfecting his body and increasing his endurance. Simply monotony—the ability to endure monotony and even draw strength from monotony—is something very, very important in ministry. So: competence within the measure of one’s endowment in the basic areas of ministry.

I have mentioned three things, then: perpetual growth, vital spirituality, and competence.

A fourth, very important thing has also been mentioned, and I will simply qualify it a little further: integrity. We teach through our lives. Children learn by continually observing their parents, and churches learn by continually observing their leaders.

It is not only what we openly preach from the pulpit, although that helps greatly. But every day I become more and more convinced that the moment of preaching, despite all the power it has and the need for churches to receive good preaching, is actually minimal. What matters is the continual, daily interactions: your people observing how you conduct yourself amid conflict, crises, failures, and the challenges of ministry, and how you emerge from those things—not necessarily unscathed, but indeed smelling like Christ.

That is what imparts a deposit of life to your congregation. That is to say, there must be integrity. “Integrity” comes from the word “whole”—being made of one piece. There is no fold or seam, as has often been said of Christ’s garment: they had to cast lots for the entire thing; they could not divide it because it did not consist of separate pieces but was a single garment. And that is how the child of God, the servant of God, whether man or woman, must be. We must be of one piece. Within that one piece there will even be inconsistencies at times, but what we do when those falls, those shortcomings, those departures occur is immediately close the piece again, because there is confession, acknowledgment of sin, humbling ourselves before others, giving an account—all those kinds of things. And although there is a rupture for a moment, that covering, so to speak, that covers the life of the servant of God is closed again. It is therefore very important to have that kind of integrity, that wholeness, in what we do.

No matter how excellent a ministry may be in finances, preaching, or evangelism, if there is no integrity, sooner or later it will collapse. The devil is very observant, and he keeps accounts open for a very long time so that a great deal of interest can accumulate; then, at the opportune moment, he destroys and wipes out everything because he knows there is an opening in the life of the minister who does not exercise that element of integrity—the practice of closing something as soon as it opens. That is a better, more dynamic way of understanding integrity.

In fifth place, the minister, the servant of God, must be biblically grounded; there must be a biblical foundation. Christ says that the one who does not sow in Him, the one who does not serve in Him, does not truly bear fruit. Ministry must be grounded in biblical principles, in biblical foundations; the Word of God must be the foundation.

And we must be listening to the overall tonality established by the Word and asking, “Does it resemble the tone my ministry produces?” I speak of tonality because, as a musician, you look at those forks that were often used in the past; they were like table forks, like tongs for... A tone is sounded so you can hear the tone it produces and see whether the voice is in tune with that sound, that vibration produced by the metal that has been tuned to the exact pitch.

And we must try to ensure that, as far as possible, our ministry and our lives are always in harmony with the tone produced by the Word of God. We must produce the same tone, and that comes from being biblically grounded. We must always be looking into the Word, searching and digging into the Word of God in order to draw from it the principles that will govern and characterize our lives as ministers—biblically grounded.

The minister must be intimately involved with his flock. And this is where the element of transparency also comes in: intimate involvement with our flock. The minister cannot afford to be a hired hand. I believe that is what Christ meant by the word “hired hand.”

There are professions that allow a certain distance and even often require it—for example, the ministry of counseling, psychiatry, or psychology—in order to prevent contamination both of the minister and of the person receiving ministry. A certain distance is required, but I believe that both the danger and the glory of pastoring lie in the fact that our lives, at a healthy level, must be deeply intertwined with our flock.

The minister cannot afford to be a nine-to-five minister or to maintain a pontifical distance from his flock. We must love our flock and weep with it. Our flock contaminates us. Our flock makes us cry; our flock is often upset with us, and we with it. We bury them, baptize them, present them before the Lord, go to their birthday celebrations, and eat with them, and that gives us material with which to minister to them. And at the same time, we also bless them with our humanity, which is redeemed and yet also sinful.

But there must be that deep involvement, and there must also be that vulnerability and transparency on the minister’s part so that people can see him for who he is. That humanity struggling with God and in God is what blesses people. I would also add authenticity here. We could say that involvement, transparency, and authenticity are three things joined together within this aspect of an excellent minister.

And finally, there must be an ethic of service; there must be an ethic of service. The words of the Lord Jesus Christ, which were mentioned earlier—I believe it was Nelson who mentioned them—tell us that we are called to serve.

There are the famous images the Lord Jesus Christ left us: washing His disciples’ feet and correcting His disciples when one wanted to sit at His right and another at His left. It will not be that way in the Kingdom of God; rather, the greater will serve the lesser, and the greatest will be like the least.

Today, I believe that ministerial ethics have changed considerably, to a certain extent, and we see many ministers who, rather than serving the flock, are served by the flock and use the flock for their own benefit. And they often exploit the flock. I agree with Sergio’s words; he also developed that dimension concerning the ethereal and the material.

And I do believe that many of us ministers are exploited and oppressed by our congregations, and an excessive spirituality has been created for us, and that is harmful to the life of the minister, his family, his children, etc. But there is also a balance that we must maintain, and I know that he agrees with it one hundred percent: we are servants. The word minister comes from the Latin word meaning to serve, and that means that we must have an ethic of service, of sacrifice. The rules governing the life of the servant of God are not the rules governing the life of an ordinary man or an ordinary woman. The priests did not receive an inheritance; they did not own land in the Old Testament—we often forget that. Their inheritance was Jehovah.

Now, they were looked after, and their well-being was looked after. There were provisions for their welfare, but the minister, the servant of God, is in a different category. We have access to a glory to which the layperson often does not have access, but at the same time we also have something that humbles us and keeps us limited. We have both things. So it is important.

We could continue, but I think I am going to limit myself solely to that aspect of the excellent minister, and then we can talk about other things later.

Let’s give him a round of applause. We can already see that they have brought us a broad and substantial feast. The truth of the matter is that we could stay here for several hours discussing this beautiful and very important subject. We now want to take the opportunity, for about 15 or 20 minutes, or half an hour at most, to hear from you. I would like you to ask the panel questions, or make a comment if you have one, but remember that I am going to stop some of you when I ask for comments: comments, not preaching. When we have another conference, we will invite you to speak. I speak from experience. Let’s open it up that way. Any questions? And you may direct it to a particular person on the panel.

God bless you all. I know that we have talked a great deal about various things concerning pastoral excellence, but I would like to hear from each of you individually ....... it would enrich the people of God: in three words, what is an excellent minister to you—just three words?

A summary. We’ll give you three seconds to think. We’ll begin with Sergio.

The Apostle Paul introduced himself as Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ—one of his titles was servant of Jesus Christ—and obedient.

We’ll interpret those three a little more broadly. Okay? Who else?

Likewise, faithful servant.

To serve faithfully.

An imitation of Jesus Christ.

In the manner of Jesus.

Servant—and one of the words I heard several times, faithfulness—and mine: worshiper.

Any other questions?

.........spirituality and justice said that, to live in the kingdom, we must live in transformed relationships among nations, within the same nation, and in godliness. And today I heard—I don’t know from whom; I think it was Alvin—something about godliness, and suddenly that word rang a bell for me. And I want to ask for a practical example of the difference between compassion, godliness, prudence, and mercy. I imagine that, since they are words, there must be some precise difference. I was thinking about how I can truly practice godliness toward my fellow human beings, what the difference is.... I understand what it means to be merciful, but what does it mean to be godly—a practical example? How have you practiced godliness as ministers?

I was the one who used the word godliness. I used the word in its classical sense, which means being like God, the longing to be like God, which includes being compassionate. One of the things we forget is that one of the basic creeds of Judaism, which Christianity also inherited, is in Exodus 34, where the Lord says, “Jehovah, your God, is a merciful God.” We must not forget that—being attentive and compassionate toward others and keeping others in mind. Also, when I say that godliness is needed, something else about godliness that we forget is that Jehovah, especially in the Old Testament, repeatedly tells us that he cares for orphans, he cares for immigrants, widows, the abandoned, and the despised. That aspect matters because sometimes we, especially in classical evangelism here in North America, think that godliness is how much one prays, how much one reads the Bible, how much one fasts, right? And perhaps how much one gives in offerings; it does not include extending compassion to people in need.

My question is for any of the panelists. I listened very carefully. With the exception of Sergio Pérez, Alvin Padilla, and Roberto Miranda, the social dimension—and even, rather, the sociopolitical dimension—of the church was addressed in terms of involvement in the community and also in terms of our role as restorers and reconcilers. But, for any of the panelists, what relationship does pastoral and ministerial excellence have to those contemporary issues? For example, as I understand it, it is contradictory for me to see a church where the pastor is supposedly excellent, but the flock is nourished by an incredibly machista spirit and culture in which women are subjugated, right? These subjects are somewhat taboo, but what relationship does this pastoral excellence have to the pastor’s leading or prophetic role in denouncing these things—sexism and racism—inside and outside the church?

A pretty heavy question, but an important one. Who wants to take it?

We remember that Paul says, “We are ministers of a new covenant.” I have just written about 300 pages in English for a book in which I try to emphasize the ways in which we are ministers of the new covenant. The new covenant is unilateral, unconditional, proactive, full of grace, full of mercy; it emphasizes empowering others rather than seizing power. It is one of continual renewal, and it reaches into intimacy. So there are about 10 clauses that we draw from Jeremiah 31, Hebrews 8, Hebrews 10, and all of that, but when one is an imitator of God..... “Be imitators of God, as beloved children.”

Second premise: “As Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.” Conclusion: “Husbands, love your wives; women, respect your husbands; parents, raise your children.” Everything social, every interpersonal relationship, is subject to being imitators of God, and the minister par excellence—whether woman or man—is an imitator of God and does what God did with us.

As pastors, they are unilateral, unconditional, proactive, full of grace, full of mercy. They seek—and speaking of godliness and all that—one gives people what they do not deserve and does not repay people with what they do deserve. Grace and mercy, and one empowers; therefore, there is no room for subjugation, no room for denigration, no room for manipulation, no room for any of the wrongdoing that we commit in the name of culture, because one is redefined by the grace of God, from whom every family on earth derives its name. That means being defined by and made subject to the divine demand that we be examples like Jesus on this earth.

John says, “As he is, so are we in this world.” Thus we reflect, and also ontologically exhale, what God has done through the Spirit: the new character whereby the one who is in Christ is a new creation. And there is even the preceding verse, verse 16 of chapter 5 of Second Corinthians: “...from now on we regard no one according to the flesh; even if we once regarded Christ that way, we regard him thus no longer. The one who is in Christ is a new creation...” What does that mean? There is no culture that is not subject to the supraculture of God’s love, the Holy Spirit, the new covenant.

So we are not here to emphasize our culture, whether Russian, Ukrainian, Hispanic, or Anglo-Saxon. We are here to say that we are a new creation, new creatures, and that from now on we regard no one culturally or naturally, according to the primary socialization we received. Instead, we are resocialized by the Holy Spirit into a new covenant so that we may be new creatures and live a new life.

I even say that many theologians are trying to recover what we lost in Eden instead of looking toward what we will be in the New Jerusalem, toward the future. In the New Jerusalem there is no distinction or discrepancy; rather, we are all one in love, in Christ Jesus, instead of trying to determine who came first, who came second, whether this one dominates or another does, egalitarian, hierarchical. All those things disappear when we see the Parousia, the Second Coming. And that day must condition this day in every social relationship. If we understand that we are ministers of a new covenant and emphasize that way of being and relating to one another, everything that is culturally oppressive, denigrating, and stupid disappears in the name of the Lord.

Tremendous truths: that we are an eschatological people living in that time, but without breaking the tension, because we are already .... not yet, and if ...... that we have to live.

I want to expand on what Dr. Polichuk says from another perspective—let’s say, looking at it from another side. I am thinking of two biblical texts: one is where the Lord, in his Great Commission, calls us to disciple the nations, to disciple the peoples; and the second is where Paul speaks of subjecting every thought, taking every thought captive to Christ Jesus.

And in those two assertions there is a singular value: the Gospel always—and the church is called to—subject all reality to the values of the Kingdom of God. I believe that this encompasses the prophetic calling of the church, social transformation, and community involvement.

I prefer to see it from a much broader perspective, as a call simply to examine the reality we inhabit in the light of the values proposed by the Word of God; and wherever there is a discrepancy, our mission is to unite the two and subject external reality to the Word of God.

And in this we remember what Romans 12:1 says: “Do not conform to this age, but rather be transformed....” etc. The idea is that it is not the world that will conform the church, or the Word, to its own image and likeness; rather, the church will conform the world to the image and likeness of God and of the Word of God. Therefore, our calling, our task, is to examine the world around us critically, determine what the Word says about any reality in which we are involved, and then bridge the gap between the two.

That resolves the problem, for example: what should the church’s position be regarding slavery? If the church had read Jesus as he ought to have been read—not conforming him to its preferences and its flesh, but to the Word—there would be no room for enslaving another human being, denigrating, exploiting, oppressing, or manipulating that person. The message of the Word is very clear in that regard; we violate it simply because of excessive sinfulness.

What does the Word say about women and men? Let’s look for it, let’s.... and, as far as possible, try to isolate it from our own projections and social context, as Sergio was saying, and love as Christ loves the church. That is very clear. How did Christ love the church? He gave himself for her, etc., etc. There is much that one can say there. Simply do an exegesis of that.

How does a woman submit to her husband? Perhaps as Christ submits to the Father. I can also provide an exegesis of that. There again, there is no exploitation; the leader serves as Christ serves. I believe that the entire dynamic of a sound, healthy, dynamic, interactive marriage, etc., is contained there.

What does the Word say about homosexuality or same-sex marriage—something very relevant today? Well, we look for what the Word says, we adjust accordingly, and that is where prophetic ministry comes in.

I believe that the church has often put the cart before the horse, and we have rushed out to seek a prophetic ministry, when what we really need to seek is a biblical ministry. And when there is a biblical ministry, a prophetic ministry emerges, because we will inevitably be led to go against the world, against the current, against culture, because the world is ruled by a demonic spirit and the church is ruled by a divine, benevolent Spirit. So that is the prophetic calling of the church, put very simply.

Yes, very good. Nelson, would you like to comment on something?

Yes, very briefly. Second Corinthians, chapter 1, came to mind, where Paul speaks of the work of the Holy Spirit in him and in ministers, and which we consequently later discover in the church, in a certain sense as though he were creating a serum, a medicine within us for the community, sometimes taking us to extremes.

And what I mean by this is that change begins here. Many of us were not born here, and we have had to come here from other countries and then adapt to this culture. We ourselves undergo that process of change and internal struggles, etc., and we must incorporate the biblical message into ourselves; and we realize that, in that process, we are a prophetic message.

As the Apostle Paul said, we are open letters to all the people who see us. And what I want to reiterate is that we ourselves are a message to the culture around us. Simply by responding and allowing ourselves to be changed by the Holy Spirit—and there was an emphasis on the movement of the cultural pendulum; sometimes there are different emphases that must be emphasized—and that is why God did not send angels to minister to humanity. He placed flesh-and-blood people who must also respond to those demands.

All right, thank you. One or two more questions.

First of all, I want to thank all of you for taking the time, and specifically for speaking about this subject. My work, besides being spiritual, is secular. I work with the community, and one of the things that really catches my attention is seeing... I am deeply in love with that point you raised about spiritual excellence. I thank Pastor Pérez for raising the point about the need to also break that down, expand on it, and speak a little about the excellence the church must also have in the material realm. But it also makes me a little sad, I must admit, to see that we truly lack quite a lot—I do not know whether it is education, which is part of the excellence you were discussing, or perhaps resources—to be able truly to carry this out and see the church manifest itself in that area of social needs, which for me is that part you mentioned, Pastor Pérez, concerning the material realm.

And regrettably, I would like—and, you know, I was wondering whether this is a question or a personal comment; I do not know—but to what extent do you truly see the church, in this case throughout New England, getting involved? Regarding excellence, I can say that I have read Dr. Villafañe’s books, I have been able to listen to Pastor Polichuk’s sermons, I took a class with Padilla at CUME, and obviously I know my pastor, Miranda. But what I am getting at is this: I appreciate that you have created programs and write books, but to what extent are we actually seeing church leaders and pastors address that aspect of excellence at the level of social need, given that, if all of you have churches, I imagine that the vast majority of their members are immigrants? To what extent, then, do you see your church, or the church in general, struggling?

I know that we have been very active against everything related to same-sex marriage, but there are other areas; it is not just that. So I would like to hear from you to what extent you really believe this—or perhaps it is not even necessary, because we each have different viewpoints.

Thank you. If you will allow me, I am sitting here barely restraining myself from speaking. Those who know me know that I... if you will permit me at least a footnote, as they say, a comment in the margin.

The sister began by using an expression—and when Lucrecia looks over like that, we have about 15 or 20 students here who immediately looked at me—because we are dealing with part of this subject in our Introduction to the Public Ministry of the Church class. Something we seized upon yesterday and emphasized when Fernando asked a question was that they made that material-spiritual dichotomy, which I am very glad Sergio addressed so well. I do not accept those divisions of, “This is spiritual, and this is material.”

The Greco-Roman mind, as Sergio aptly described, is dominated by that dichotomy: this is material and this is spiritual. The Iberian and biblical mind knows no such distinction. To me, everything is spiritual, because everything has an impact, a spiritual element.

The question we also pursued was that the problem itself is that, when we humanly think that the spiritual is superior to the material, we create a dichotomy that makes no sense biblically and cannot be sustained in the life of Christ. If you press me to speak in chronological, logical terms regarding the human being, one says that the spiritual, if we define it as the soul, comes first, while the material—such as helping someone—comes second. But that is human chronos. We do not live in chronos but in God’s kairos. In kairos we see Jesus Christ walking—the chief prototype—not dealing separately with spiritual and material things or creating a dichotomy; for the Lord, it was all spiritual. For in terms of our service, when you see there a person with a material need for food, someone suffering hunger and needing care, you do not know whether you are preparing that life and that soul to hear the Gospel and later, because of the love and compassion you demonstrated, to respond to the word of the Lord.

We live—and if we live the life of the Spirit, we must live and define the situation through the Holy Spirit so that we may live it in God’s kairos. Even though logically and chronologically we know that this here comes before that, when we have fallen into that dichotomy of thought, we are separated from the divine relationship itself.

As Paul says in Philippians, which I like to discuss, we have to develop that phronesis, that mind, that renewal of the mind that causes us to think differently from the way the world has conditioned us to think.

We have inherited good evangelists and pastors who have taught us through the years, but they always make that distinction: this is material; this is spiritual. Let us reach the point where we can see the spiritual dimension that encompasses the whole of reality. A ministry of excellence—and here I am very grateful to Sergio, because this truth is one that Hispanic Pentecostal churches have lost, as have many churches that overemphasize one thing or the other. Often the liberal church emphasizes one side, while the other emphasizes the opposite side.

What we have to recover is that biblical mind, which does not lead us to make those divisions so easily. When we begin to see it that way, we will see the hand of God at work in those things that appear so concrete and so mundane, as we call them, but that are in themselves fundamentally spiritual.

Now, how does the church respond in its preparation, apart from, as was mentioned, study and training? For me, it returns to the point of a new understanding, a new revelation of the word of God. We have to return to the Word. In recent years, more than anything else, the person of Jesus Christ has increasingly dominated my thinking. It is interesting that we call ourselves Christians who follow Jesus Christ, yet when one begins to search within the life of Jesus Christ, one starts to see the knowledge, the strategy, and the excellence of a ministry that encompasses holistic ministry. And I like that word that was used several times: it is a holistic ministry that does not recognize this dichotomy that we so commonly see.

I had—I am not going to speak about it now, but I have a teaching in which I present the theology of the tooth, where I discuss how the tooth has as much to do with one’s spiritual life as anything else, but I will leave that for another time. Perhaps my colleagues have another comment.

I would only like to say—this may sound like a justification—that rather than hearing it as a question, I hear it as a cry, as a plea for our ministries to address that need.

No matter how benevolent a person may be—I say this by way of analogy—if that person rents an apartment, the ability to bring people in is very limited. If someone owns a house, it is easier to develop initiatives to help the poor.

Our hope of finishing our project is very significant, perhaps more so than people imagine. It is a physical platform from which we can address many of the community’s needs. That is our hope, our longing. We want to address that cry arising from the community and from many sincere people like you, who ask, in light of... this Gospel that is so powerful and all these blessings, where are the results? And that is how I receive it more than anything else. I thank you, and I receive it as that ongoing cry not to forget—as Paul said, may they never forget—the poor.

Allow me to say something... about the Institute for Pastoral Excellence, in response to your question or observation. The Institute for Pastoral Excellence exists precisely to promote that kind of spirituality or broader ministerial sensitivity that we are discussing here. And I use that as a way of making an appeal to the ministers who are here, both women and men pastors, because we have seen, for example—and it is regrettable that we have not seen a better response; I say this not as criticism, but rather as a personal lament—from many Hispanic pastors who could benefit greatly from this kind of teaching.

And that is because the mindset of the Latino pastorate is often still in that supra- or super-spiritual realm of which Sergio spoke. So when people speak to us about counseling, administration, community involvement, and education, which are some of the subjects we discuss at each of those retreats, many pastors or ministers say in the long run, “Ah, that does not interest me.” As I say, it does not lend itself as readily to a “Glory to God!” or a “Hallelujah!” that makes our hair stand on end and causes us to foam at the mouth.

Now, if something is held on exorcism, deliverance, or prophecy... we want that, because it is exciting and it is what we have been taught people like. But as I was saying about competence at those basic levels of ministry, that is where a ministry is truly measured; that is where a ministry rises, falls, or declines. It is often not in spirituality or prayer.

I know many tremendously godly people who do not have fruitful ministries because they lack other things. It is a complete system in which each part depends on the others.

I encourage my brothers and sisters always to think about that concrete aspect of the spiritual life. Let us always think about specifics and not so much about the abstract or “the spiritual,” and let us think about those unpleasant things. I believe that greatness consists in overcoming monotony; it is the ability to work persistently at something monotonous until you master it.

That is what lies behind a great artist, a great musician, or anyone else: the monotonous and persistent execution of details over the long term. And that is what we have to learn as ministers and servants. I encourage you, my brothers and sisters, not to disregard these things, because they are what lead to ministerial greatness: the concrete, the specific, the personal.

Pablo has a comment. Then Omar and Ray, the... new one, and I think our time has now come to an end.

The Apostle John was very practical with his parishioners. He taught—and during the final years of his life, including when he wrote his letter, he taught especially—that we must love. The new commandment: the love of God. But then he says, “This is how we know the love of God: that he laid down his life for us.”

First John 3:16 says, “...and this is how we must show it: we lay down our lives for one another. This is love.”

And then verse 17 says, “...if anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but does not help him, how can the love of God be in his heart? He is a hypocrite.”

When Ray Stedman had his church in Palo Alto with 200 people, and then God blessed them and it filled up with 2,000 people, I will never forget what happened in that church in California. They took up an offering, and it was said from the pulpit, “If you have something, put it in; if you have nothing, take something out.”

...they gave the blessing... Sergio, who is taking it up.

How many of you have taken up an offering like that among our poor brothers and sisters, among those who come over wet from Mexico, those who come without papers and are in need, who do not have a penny to their name, while you do have something because you have already been here for several years? It is not that you have nothing merely because you are Hispanic. So, if you have something, put it in; if you have nothing...

We will be going to Polichuk’s law office soon. Omar.

Brothers and sisters from Lion of Judah, that does not apply to you. That sounds very good to me. Tomorrow we will be keeping a very close eye on those who are...

Yes, I have a question, and it concerns a comment Pastor González made. It has to do with how a pastor, in his excellence, also passes something on to other generations that are now rising up. Dr. Padilla also referred to this through the example of Paul and Timothy, and now I wonder what you could say to pastors and even to leaders of existing ministries, because we are talking about generational issues. The first generation does not think like the second or third generation. There is a difference in styles and perspectives, although the essence may be the same—the essence of the Gospel—even though the styles are different. How could you answer that question at the leadership level? To be honest, I look at this panel and see first-generation leaders sitting on it right now—or am I mistaken?

I mean, I mean that they are among the first who arrived here and all of that; that is what I am referring to. But how does that leadership of excellence—and I use the word “leadership” more broadly, not only at the pastoral level but also regarding leadership in general and ministries—how does one generation inform another so that the emerging generations, and I use that term because it is now very common in academic studies, can identify and define their styles and perspectives without losing the essence, while still being effective in the contemporary context in which we are now living?

Tremendous question. Who would like to...

One comment, and then my colleagues can continue. This is incredible and striking, because the negative side of this is that we tend not to recognize the efforts of those who came before us. For me, the word that stands out in all of this is respect: showing respect.

Because one of the things I noticed recently—let’s say over a decade, over the past decade—was that there were expressions like these: “Everything I learned, I threw into the trash.” Perhaps the intent was to highlight a new movement, a new emphasis in the swing of the Spirit’s pendulum, and out of ignorance we cast aside a mine of blessing that our fathers left behind. I just wanted to make that comment, and I will let the others pick up the rest.

Jesus had 500 people who believed in him, 70 who went from house to house, two by two, twelve who were always with him, 3 best friends to whom he gave special nicknames, and one who was the beloved disciple. There are concentric circles through which one radiates, impinges, exerts influence in some way, or shares what one has.

Paul had a whole lot of people who believed, but he had a close-knit group into whom he poured everything he knew, and he says to Timothy, “What you have seen concerning me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust this to faithful men who are able to teach.”

So there is a certain divine selection, so to speak, because Jesus spent an entire night praying in order to select 12 people who would be the recipients of everything he wanted to give, and afterward he left, leaving them filled with the Holy Spirit, and they did their work.

So, for me, the new generation has to receive from us everything we know, feel, and do, and I must consider how I can pass that on. Not to everyone, because I cannot, but to the few who draw near and whom the Lord places in my path, as a mentor, as a person who says, “What I have, I give you,” and I hold nothing back.

With my disciples, I gave them all my sermons, all my illustrations, so that they could preach them, so that they could benefit from them. Why? No one has a monopoly on the truth. What one received freely, one gives freely. One imparts and gives, and as we were saying, it is not only didactic; it is life, as Roberto says, because people imitate you when they live close to you. And so one has to be accessible, share, and give to the few who will then radiate, from one circle to another, what one has given that person.

I believe that one of the great advances in the concept of ministry in our time, in recent years, is this concept that has been expressed under different names: discipleship, spiritual formation, mentoring, cell groups. It is the idea that spiritual growth takes place above all in the context of sharing life with another person or with a small group, and the idea that it happens not so much, once again, from the pulpit, from above, but on a more horizontal level: sharing experiences, confessing to one another, being accountable to one another, imparting one person’s anointing to another. Many images are used today to express this idea that most growth takes place through that intimate sharing between a mentor and a male or female disciple, whether in a small-group setting or one-on-one.

And it is a very, very powerful insight, I believe, one that has been emphasized much more in these times than in previous centuries of the church. And I believe that one of..... and that leads us to something, which is that all of us here—servants of the Lord, both men and women—should try to replicate ourselves as much as possible and pour our lives into others at that level. The people with whom we work, the leaders—we must take time to talk, to share, to be transparent, again using that word, and all that sort of thing. We have to find others who will outlive us and even surpass us, as Alvin was saying. Elwin was a professor, and now he supervises him; that is a beautiful image. We must do everything possible to foster people in our ministries who are much better than we are, and then there has to be an ethic of mentoring others, if that is the right word, and we have to adopt a posture of... I will do everything possible to pour myself and my life into others.

Now, on the other side, there is something very important about that younger generation, something I am not sure I see to the extent that it ought to be seen. I was watching the video you lent me, the DVD about “Worshiping in a Postmodern Generation,” worship in a postmodern generation. One of the things that concerns me about that video, although I share 80% of its emphasis on the importance of contextualizing the message....

Today’s young people, this generation of people aged 30 and even 40 and under, have been shaped by values very different from those of previous generations. They have been raised on a diet of questioning everything, skepticism toward the church, the idea that there are no absolute truths, that everything is a version put forward by the people in power, and the deconstruction of everything; that is this generation’s specialty.

Behind all that is a very important element: the element of authority. In the final analysis, this is a rebellious generation. That can be qualified considerably, but I believe the great question for the generation of the twenty-first century concerns authority. This can be seen, for example, in human sexuality, same-sex marriage, humanity’s ability to reinvent itself, reinvent its culture, reinvent its body, and reinvent its genetics. It all revolves around individuality—humanity versus God—and that is the great controversy involving God throughout all the centuries: rebellion.

And yet, I often see something in this generation that concerns me, despite its good postmodern Christian intentions and the presence of so many highly successful and greatly needed Christian groups. For example, one of the major churches presented there, which I know—I will not mention it simply out of respect—but the pastor says with great pleasure, though not necessarily with pride, “The average age in this church is 22,” or something like that—22 or 24; it was not much higher than that.

From one perspective that may be beautiful, but it concerns me because most of the churches highlighted there are entirely churches of young people, and youth is incapable of existing and prospering apart from the accumulated wisdom of previous generations. When youth is left to itself, all it does is reinforce its defects and shortcomings, and those deficient traits of youth are simply spread and strengthened because of its lack of experience, vision, perspective, brokenness, and all the things that lead to human nobility. It simply becomes increasingly entrenched in its defects and requires the tempering influence of old age and experience.

So it concerns me because behind that there is a sort of idea that we know more. They will not consciously frame it that way, but it is very dangerous, and I see that young people who want to grow have to resolve the issue of authority.

God prospers the person who submits to elders and to authority, so those who are going to be mentored must display openness, submission, and a willingness to learn and to be taught. They obviously have things to teach us, but old age also has its great advantages, I assure you. So I believe it is very important for this to work both ways: there must be a desire to impart and share, as well as a desire to be taught, to respect, and to submit. Both are important.

Very good, thank you.

I know that some of the panelists are fans of.... Thank you very much. One way of speaking about or describing excellence would be to say, “To be excellent like.........,” and he knocks the cover off the ball, but even so, his excellence in terms of his effectiveness and efficiency as part of the team cannot be credited entirely to him if there is no Many batting behind him or ahead of him.

And one of my concerns regarding excellence is collective excellence. Individual excellence is one thing. We often hear the criticism that we have been here for many years, and then other groups come after us and attain higher, more excellent levels than we have. I am concerned about the collective excellence of the ministry and the church.

There are other groups that know how to defend the cause of their people in a collective, complementary, and collaborative context. The Pharisees had a model of excellence in being heard and in speaking. They spoke out of both mouths, out of both sides of their mouths. Brothers and sisters, the proof is in the results. We have spoken here about good things that we are going to do after we leave here.

It was more of a comment, but it was very apt in a certain sense. I believe....

..... and do......... how to come together and do what we cannot do individually as a church and as....

Yes, I am sure that the answers given were not only individual, but implicitly spoke about and reflected a sense of community and of the church. Perhaps Ray, as well as others, wants to hear a somewhat more specific definition, because that was a good question.... The way I see it, it is a matter of defining what an excellent church is, because an excellent church implies that there must be excellent ministry and leadership. The focus of this conference has been more on leadership than on the church per se, although we have addressed the church as well, and Ray’s question more broadly encompasses the product, or the understanding, of that community that receives excellent leadership.

So they are asking, at the very least, what an excellent church is.

From our experience, three of the pillars of our ministry—a beautiful revelation that marked our ministry at the beginning—are a focus on prayer, unity, and the area of finances. Those are the three pillars of the ministry’s vision. The subject of unity is very fascinating to me. We began to practice it only at the congregational level, seeing ourselves as a body and recognizing that I was just as important as the need for children’s teachers or the usher; that is, seeing ourselves as a body. When Jesus—or Romans and Corinthians—speaks about our being the body of Christ, it is more than an analogy; it is a reality. We are the body of Christ and members of one another.

Then the time came when the Lord took me to another level: “Okay, you have done it at the congregational level; now transfer it to the city level.” From there came the desire to promote unity, or to be part of the unity arising from what I was already doing at the city level, believing precisely, Brother Ray, that God cannot be so exclusive as to prefer doing something with only one ministry. I believe God sees the church as a body, and to deny that reality is to marginalize oneself from the move of God in a city. And I believe that is part of a kingdom mindset.

.................. in order to work with everyone. I do not understand the........ We have to begin to understand our own............... that before joining with other people toward a practical destination, we have to begin to..........

...................... different things. The Pastoral Institute’s intention for this forum was simple: to present a series of leaders who would speak about a more individual topic and to have questions that could respond to the answers they had given, but not to go into more specific detail. Put another way, we could stay here all day, and what Ray is raising is very important and needs to be discussed, perhaps in another forum or another class. The truth is that we have to make time to discuss all those details and all those concrete elements of our churches, because every one of us knows very well—and I know that the leadership here is well aware—that although we speak very beautifully about excellence, many things in our churches are not going very excellently.

And that requires a different forum. Conferences, consultations, conventions—all those different forums have their particular goals. This one is simply meant to provoke you and awaken your interest in pastoral excellence, with the idea that this will begin a journey that will lead to other occasions for more detailed discussion.

That is why I believe we do not have that much time, while at the same time we can say that the work done has been very good. But Ray, we cannot go into every specific detail, which is certainly important to you but is also important to us. It is very important to everyone—perhaps at another time.

Any other comment to add? Before we finish, I had been asked to give a summary. Giving a summary of this is impossible. I took notes, but it would take me almost another 15 or 20 minutes. Still, I would like at least to offer a word or two about what each person said, something that caught my attention.

For example, concerning Dr. Pablo Polichuk, what stood out to me above all was his emphasis on the three elements of the Sermon on the Mount as the basis of an excellent ministry. That is important in terms of character, conduct, and influence. And he illustrated it with the subject of the minister’s fine linen—fine linen—saying that the excellent minister, the excellent leader, does not sweat. Think about that for a while.

Nelson González spoke to us about a definition of excellence, above all affirming 5 criteria that I believe are extremely important: personal self-denial in service; seeking connection with other ministers—in other words, seeking accountability, which is important; a commitment, above all, to family health; diligence in preparing the Word; and focus rather than plurality, a very particular focus in one’s ministry.

Dr. Alvin Padilla emphasized above all faithfulness to the Word of God. In this case, using Timothy, he spoke to us about the characteristic of being a student of Scripture and, in his very Puerto Rican expression, being soaked in the Scriptures, right? The minister who is going to be excellent has to be soaked in Scripture. It is none other than what has to do with the ability that was discussed just now.

Avoiding the influence of false doctrines, training oneself in godliness, being an example of virtue, and being an excellent servant in working. I don’t know why the last one came down to working; perhaps it is because there are some pastors who are a little lazy. I don’t know; let’s leave it there. May God rebuke that.

The Reverend Sergio Pérez presented to us the need to restore that balanced ministry which encompasses spirit, soul, and body, and he presented something very important that we have touched on—and yours truly underscored the importance of our having a biblical mind, the Hebraic mind, a mind that does not recognize that false dichotomy between the material and the spiritual, but encompasses everything—and the excellent minister discerns the body of Christ, his church, his congregation, in order to know when to emphasize one aspect or another and maintain balance, an Aristotelian golden mean. Golden mean means discerning God’s kairos, knowing when a church needs an emphasis here or another one there.

Dr. Roberto Miranda, speaking about his criteria or characteristics, gave us six: being in a perpetual pattern of growth, seeking perspective, growing in knowledge, in Christ, and in relationships; a vital spirituality; competence within the area of one’s calling; integrity; being biblically grounded; and an ethic of service.

We could talk and offer more comments about this, but you can see for yourselves that there is a phenomenal study here. Perhaps, if I am not mistaken, this is being recorded, which means that it will be accessible to those who want to purchase it, because what has been shared here has truly been very rich and very important. And may God grant, Osmar, that we can have some time, perhaps a follow-up to this first session, in which, taking up the concerns Ray raised for us and others as well, we can go into more specific detail.

I hope that what we have had here has stirred that up a little and whetted your appetite a little. You are going to enroll in the Pastoral Institute at CUME—promotion for everyone.